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| < Warrior: Lemming |
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Sat May 21, 2005 12:13 am
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Abusive Admin
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It's hard to tell what's wrong with Lemming. Maybe she watched a bit too much TV as a child. Maybe she huffs glue. In any case, she is a fairly dim warrior who plods head-first into destruction. Her natural environment is burning amid a firestorm she created, all the while claiming to be the victim. She is easy to spot by her unfathomable belief she can't be held accountable for what she does mixed with inconsistancy that points to Attention Deficit Disorder. Her often brief attacks show no sign of planning or thought. Her lack of subtlety, wit, insight, and consistancy make her among the most insignificant of warriors.
In combat, Lemming relies on the belief that as long as she doesn't admit something, it isn't true for her or anyone else. She just keeps plodding mindlessly straight ahead, not letting things like an ocean or sharp fall off a cliff shake her belief she's making progress. Her methods may include claiming X is impossible to prove, telling other people how they feel, ignorance of her own behavior, or claiming she's not accountable to anyone. When in doubt, she may invent an argument for someone and rattle off a rehearsed retort to it.
Lemming is the fraternal twin sister of Stone Deaf. Unlike her brother who is deaf to any argument he cannot defeat, Lemming is blind to both what lies behind her and the doom ahead. If she has any advantage, it is that those seeking revenge against her may feel guilty for it. Attacking Lemming is often akin to beating a puppy for being too dumb to know not to urinate on the carpet.
WARNING: Lemmings marching in large numbers can be particularly dangerous. Like an exceptionally vapid squad of Cyber Sisters, they tend to fight as a unit. Though not any smarter in large numbers, they can bury opponents in mindless drivel. Even powerful warriors may be overwhelmed while searching for a large enough stick to beat them all to death with.
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Sat May 21, 2005 12:24 am
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Clueless Newb
Joined: 19 Feb 2005
Posts: 48
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You might wnat to remove the Stonedeaf reference, seeing as how he was removed.
(Or are you foreshadowing your sinister plan to revive Stonedeaf underneath our noses?)
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-Eviler Clown
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Mon May 23, 2005 10:25 am
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Furious Typer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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Long post. The more I read, the more vague this suggestion became.
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Evil Clown/Therapist, longtime warrior of online writing forums. |
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Mon May 23, 2005 10:27 am
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Rambler
Joined: 05 Apr 2005
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How is this different from Ferrous Cranus?
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Mon May 23, 2005 5:47 pm
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Abusive Admin
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| Theognome wrote: |
| How is this different from Ferrous Cranus? |
Ferrous Cranus repeats the same arguments over and over, barely altering tactics. Lemming attacks much more randomly, without consistancy or any indication she thinks at all about the reply before it comes out. Another major difference is Ferrous Cranous sternly believes he is right, while Lemming may not even believe anything she says because she's just firing off a reply on the spot.
I was originally going to name this Flotsam (which has a nice pirate feel). Mention it floats mindlessly with the current of conversation but is little more than an unthinking object... but I couldn't make it work. Plus I'd have to come up with a warrior named Jetsam.
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Mon May 23, 2005 6:55 pm
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Rambler
Joined: 05 Apr 2005
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Location: Misourri
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| irritus wrote: |
| Theognome wrote: |
| How is this different from Ferrous Cranus? |
Ferrous Cranus repeats the same arguments over and over, barely altering tactics. Lemming attacks much more randomly, without consistancy or any indication she thinks at all about the reply before it comes out. Another major difference is Ferrous Cranous sternly believes he is right, while Lemming may not even believe anything she says because she's just firing off a reply on the spot.
I was originally going to name this Flotsam (which has a nice pirate feel). Mention it floats mindlessly with the current of conversation but is little more than an unthinking object... but I couldn't make it work. Plus I'd have to come up with a warrior named Jetsam. |
Any examples you could link to?
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Mon May 23, 2005 7:04 pm
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There are a couple back-to-back gems here. He's made a lot of contradicting remarks, but it would be cruel and tedious to try linking all of them up. Hopefully we can help Poison Lotus with his flaming and self-abuse problems, in true community spirit.
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Mon May 23, 2005 7:18 pm
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Rambler
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| irritus wrote: |
| There are a couple back-to-back gems here. He's made a lot of contradicting remarks, but it would be cruel and tedious to try linking all of them up. Hopefully we can help Poison Lotus with his flaming and self-abuse problems, in true community spirit. |
Hmmm... lemme do a comparison:
| Irritus wrote: |
| In combat, Lemming relies on the belief that as long as she doesn't admit something, it isn't true for her or anyone else. She just keeps plodding mindlessly straight ahead, not letting things like an ocean or sharp fall off a cliff shake her belief she's making progress. Her methods may include claiming X is impossible to prove, telling other people how they feel, ignorance of her own behavior, or claiming she's not accountable to anyone. When in doubt, she may invent an argument for someone and rattle off a rehearsed retort to it. |
-VS-
| Ferrous Cranus wrote: |
| Ferrous Cranus is utterly impervious to reason, persuasion and new ideas, and when engaged in battle he will not yield an inch in his position regardless of its hopelessness. Though his thrusts are decisively repulsed, his arguments crushed in every detail and his defenses demolished beyond repair he will remount the same attack again and again with only the slightest variation in tactics. |
-And-
| Irritus wrote: |
| Lemming is the fraternal twin sister of Stone Deaf. Unlike her brother who is deaf to any argument he cannot defeat, Lemming is blind to both what lies behind her and the doom ahead. If she has any advantage, it is that those seeking revenge against her may feel guilty for it. Attacking Lemming is often akin to beating a puppy for being too dumb to know not to urinate on the carpet. |
-VS-
| Ferrous Cranus wrote: |
| Sometimes out of pure frustration Philosopher will try to explain to him the failed logistics of his situation, or Therapist will attempt to penetrate the psychological origins of his obduracy, but, ever unfathomable, Ferrous Cranus cannot be moved. |
The wording is different, but the thrust seems the same. This seems like a variant to me, and not a new warrior type.
| Irritus wrote: |
| WARNING: Lemmings marching in large numbers can be particularly dangerous. Like an exceptionally vapid squad of Cyber Sisters, they tend to fight as a unit. Though not any smarter in large numbers, they can bury opponents in mindless drivel. Even powerful warriors may be overwhelmed while searching for a large enough stick to beat them all to death with. |
Simply the beginnings of a rather mindless Swarm. I somehow doubt that the unity amongst the type that you speak of is realistic.
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Mon May 23, 2005 7:44 pm
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Abusive Admin
Joined: 14 Jan 2005
Posts: 6059
Location: The Archive of Fortitude
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| Theognome wrote: |
| Irritus wrote: |
| In combat, Lemming relies on the belief that as long as she doesn't admit something, it isn't true for her or anyone else. She just keeps plodding mindlessly straight ahead, not letting things like an ocean or sharp fall off a cliff shake her belief she's making progress. Her methods may include claiming X is impossible to prove, telling other people how they feel, ignorance of her own behavior, or claiming she's not accountable to anyone. When in doubt, she may invent an argument for someone and rattle off a rehearsed retort to it. |
-VS-
| Ferrous Cranus wrote: |
| Ferrous Cranus is utterly impervious to reason, persuasion and new ideas, and when engaged in battle he will not yield an inch in his position regardless of its hopelessness. Though his thrusts are decisively repulsed, his arguments crushed in every detail and his defenses demolished beyond repair he will remount the same attack again and again with only the slightest variation in tactics. |
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| irritus wrote: |
| Ferrous Cranus repeats the same arguments over and over, barely altering tactics. Lemming attacks much more randomly, without consistancy or any indication she thinks at all about the reply before it comes out. |
| Theognome wrote: |
| Irritus wrote: |
| Lemming is the fraternal twin sister of Stone Deaf. Unlike her brother who is deaf to any argument he cannot defeat, Lemming is blind to both what lies behind her and the doom ahead. If she has any advantage, it is that those seeking revenge against her may feel guilty for it. Attacking Lemming is often akin to beating a puppy for being too dumb to know not to urinate on the carpet. |
-VS-
| Ferrous Cranus wrote: |
| Sometimes out of pure frustration Philosopher will try to explain to him the failed logistics of his situation, or Therapist will attempt to penetrate the psychological origins of his obduracy, but, ever unfathomable, Ferrous Cranus cannot be moved. |
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| irritus wrote: |
| Another major difference is Ferrous Cranous sternly believes he is right, while Lemming may not even believe anything she says because she's just firing off a reply on the spot. |
| Theognome wrote: |
| The wording is different, but the thrust seems the same. This seems like a variant to me, and not a new warrior type. |
The wording is different because they're two different descriptions. I already explained the differences. I fail to see what good it does to just put two blocks of text side by side and say they are the same thing, unless you're trying to goad me for some reason.
| Theognome wrote: |
| Irritus wrote: |
| WARNING: Lemmings marching in large numbers can be particularly dangerous. Like an exceptionally vapid squad of Cyber Sisters, they tend to fight as a unit. Though not any smarter in large numbers, they can bury opponents in mindless drivel. Even powerful warriors may be overwhelmed while searching for a large enough stick to beat them all to death with. |
Simply the beginnings of a rather mindless Swarm. I somehow doubt that the unity amongst the type that you speak of is realistic. |
First, a group of warriors does not constitute The Swarm. Second, your feelings are based on your unfounded belief Lemming is Ferrous Cranous. The little similarities you brought up were already covered by what I said in the previous post. If you're just going to post blocks of text and say "they're similar" with no explanation, I'm just going to quote myself indefinitely in responce.
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| Posted:
Mon May 23, 2005 8:13 pm
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Rambler
Joined: 05 Apr 2005
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Location: Misourri
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Goading you doesn't seem too difficult to do as of late. Have you been taking your meds?
| Irritus wrote: |
| In combat, Lemming relies on the belief that as long as she doesn't admit something, it isn't true for her or anyone else. She just keeps plodding mindlessly straight ahead, not letting things like an ocean or sharp fall off a cliff shake her belief she's making progress. Her methods may include claiming X is impossible to prove, telling other people how they feel, ignorance of her own behavior, or claiming she's not accountable to anyone. When in doubt, she may invent an argument for someone and rattle off a rehearsed retort to it. |
| Ferrous Cranus wrote: |
| Ferrous Cranus is utterly impervious to reason, persuasion and new ideas, and when engaged in battle he will not yield an inch in his position regardless of its hopelessness. Though his thrusts are decisively repulsed, his arguments crushed in every detail and his defenses demolished beyond repair he will remount the same attack again and again with only the slightest variation in tactics. |
I don't see much difference in practice, other than perhaps that Ferrous Cranus is a bit more creative when it comes to rewording an argument. Your description fits extremely well into the old Stone Deaf, which I know you mentioned, but was removed from the list for being too similar to FC. It's still the 'I don't acknowledge anything I don't want too' tactic.
| Irritus wrote: |
| Lemming is the fraternal twin sister of Stone Deaf. Unlike her brother who is deaf to any argument he cannot defeat, Lemming is blind to both what lies behind her and the doom ahead. If she has any advantage, it is that those seeking revenge against her may feel guilty for it. Attacking Lemming is often akin to beating a puppy for being too dumb to know not to urinate on the carpet. |
| Ferrous Cranus wrote: |
| Sometimes out of pure frustration Philosopher will try to explain to him the failed logistics of his situation, or Therapist will attempt to penetrate the psychological origins of his obduracy, but, ever unfathomable, Ferrous Cranus cannot be moved. |
I've read the threads you linked, as well as others. You can replace Philosopher with Tireless Rebutter perhaps in this case, but the Therapists have been rejoicing at PL's arrival. Also, the logic arguments and attempts to psychoanalyze have accomplished nothing, which is typical to the FC breed. The same cliff and/or ocean sits in front of the iron head, too. Likewise, the frustration point was hit and many folks 'took pity' as you indicated. But that's what happens to an FC when they're too thick to get out of a paper bag- some folks will try to lure them out. I've never seen it work, though.
| Irritus wrote: |
| First, a group of warriors does not constitute The Swarm. Second, your feelings are based on your unfounded belief Lemming is Ferrous Cranous. The little similarities you brought up were already covered by what I said in the previous post. If you're just going to post blocks of text and say "they're similar" with no explanation, I'm just going to quote myself indefinitely in responce. |
I've never seen a group of FC's band together for common goals outside of White Nationalists. And yes, I don't see Lemming as being any different. You've shown one person who you claim to be this unique warrior called a Lemming, could you provide a link of a group of them doing what you claim is their 'lemming' behaviour of overwhelming the vets?
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There are three kinds of people: Those who can count, and those who can't. |
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| Posted:
Mon May 23, 2005 9:03 pm
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Abusive Admin
Joined: 14 Jan 2005
Posts: 6059
Location: The Archive of Fortitude
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| Theognome wrote: |
| Goading you doesn't seem too difficult to do as of late. Have you been taking your meds? |
You are normally more verbose in your arguments. To just plug two things side-by-side like that is out of character for you, at least based on what I've seen. If it's any consolation, when I theorized you might be goading me, I figured it was just for a change of pace (rather than something negative).
| Theognome wrote: |
| I don't see much difference in practice, other than perhaps that Ferrous Cranus is a bit more creative when it comes to rewording an argument. Your description fits extremely well into the old Stone Deaf, which I know you mentioned, but was removed from the list for being too similar to FC. It's still the 'I don't acknowledge anything I don't want too' tactic. |
Except that Lemming does not reword arguments. Ferrous Cranous believes so strongly in his argument he assumes his opposition either doesn't want to accept it, or his argument will click and they'll "suddenly realize" he is correct. Lemming replies randomly, simply to be contrary. As I've said before, she may not even believe in what she's saying herself, because she doesn't pay attention to it herself. That is entirely different in method and motive. If you're going to say they're the same because they both ignore something then you must conclude Ferrous Cranous, Tireless Rebutter, and Ideologue are the same warrior because they reply a lot.
| Theognome wrote: |
| I've read the threads you linked, as well as others. You can replace Philosopher with Tireless Rebutter perhaps in this case, but the Therapists have been rejoicing at PL's arrival. Also, the logic arguments and attempts to psychoanalyze have accomplished nothing, which is typical to the FC breed. |
Except that none of that was in the Lemming description, so there is no point in comparing them as if it was.
| Theognome wrote: |
| The same cliff and/or ocean sits in front of the iron head, too. |
I think you misread that part of the Lemming description.
Unlike her brother who is deaf to any argument he cannot defeat, Lemming is blind to both what lies behind her and the doom ahead.
This doesn't mean, "Lemming ignores stuff just like Stone Deaf," or like anyone else for that matter. Lemming does not ignore things selectively, which is a key difference between her and Stone Deaf / Ferrous Cranous. She makes no effort to keep track of anything, and her posts are only on-topic because she sort-of attacks based on what's been said. Alternately, Ferrous Cranous is almost always on-topic, recycling the appropriate argument he used for the matching counterpoint.
| Theognome wrote: |
| Likewise, the frustration point was hit and many folks 'took pity' as you indicated. But that's what happens to an FC when they're too thick to get out of a paper bag- some folks will try to lure them out. I've never seen it work, though. |
How people react to a warrior only matters if that is what best-defines that warrior. Reaction is a lousy way to describe a warrior, which is why the only warriors defined-by-reaction are Target and Typhoid Mary.
| Theognome wrote: |
| I've never seen a group of FC's band together for common goals outside of White Nationalists. And yes, I don't see Lemming as being any different. |
| Irritus wrote: |
| Second, your feelings are based on your unfounded belief Lemming is Ferrous Cranous. |
There is no point in debating this bit. As I said, this disagreement is based on your misconception of what Lemming is.
| Theognome wrote: |
| You've shown one person who you claim to be this unique warrior called a Lemming, could you provide a link of a group of them doing what you claim is their 'lemming' behaviour of overwhelming the vets? |
Not off-hand, as I haven't trolled idiot-filled forums in years. A Lemming stampede is uncoordinated and has nothing to do with loyalty or revenge. Basically it's a bunch of people just rattling off insults at the same person, spamming a thread with off-topic posts, and occassionally attacking one another for no apparent reason. It is not that the attacks are good, it's that since none of the Lemmings are really following anything it's difficult to hit one of them hard enough for the damage to sink in.
Anyone out there have a link to what I am talking about?
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| Posted:
Mon May 23, 2005 10:16 pm
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First, I must admit that it is a painful thing for me to be so short in my replies, but as I'm certain you understand, it was for the common good.
My short answer to your post would be thus:
| Irritus wrote: |
| A thorough explanation |
This is Gladiator.
The long answer would be as follows:
| Iritus wrote: |
| Except that Lemming does not reword arguments. Ferrous Cranous believes so strongly in his argument he assumes his opposition either doesn't want to accept it, or his argument will click and they'll "suddenly realize" he is correct. Lemming replies randomly, simply to be contrary. As I've said before, she may not even believe in what she's saying herself, because she doesn't pay attention to it herself. That is entirely different in method and motive. If you're going to say they're the same because they both ignore something then you must conclude Ferrous Cranous, Tireless Rebutter, and Ideologue are the same warrior because they reply a lot. |
Good point. This looks like yet another good reason to pester Mike Reed into taking action on this Stone Deaf issue. As you pointed out earlier-
| Irritus wrote: |
| Lemming is the fraternal twin sister of Stone Deaf. |
This warrior does lie in those Howler infested waters.
| Irritus wrote: |
| This doesn't mean, "Lemming ignores stuff just like Stone Deaf," or like anyone else for that matter. Lemming does not ignore things selectively, which is a key difference between her and Stone Deaf / Ferrous Cranous. She makes no effort to keep track of anything, and her posts are only on-topic because she sort-of attacks based on what's been said. Alternately, Ferrous Cranous is almost always on-topic, recycling the appropriate argument he used for the matching counterpoint. |
More specifics on the particular variant (for lack of better term) of Stone Deaf that we're dealing with, as well as proofs that the two are indeed very distinct. Hell, I've hung around a few of those too many times. Stone Deaf only knows a single argument, and simply cannot deviate intellectually from it. Any interference is simply ignored as the rock crashes forth to its conclusions. Ferrous Cranus, as you point out, does have much more versatility in his argumentation, but it is a classic 'But there's a hole in the bucket' merry-go-round.
You're right, Lemming does add a twist to this. Rather than ignore arguments, she ignores her own posts. this is a very distinct variation on the overall Stone Deaf/Ferrous Cranus theme, as both of these warriors do build their positions based on prior argumentation. Lemming Couldn't care less what she said just two posts prior, especially if they are in different threads.
In essence, when Lemming engages in battle, she only responds to one post at a time. Meaning- it doesn't matter what she wrote or her opponant wrote before, she only has to address what is specifically said above. There are no contradictions in her posts, for in her eyes, only one post even exists- the one she's reading. If Lemming does mention something that was previously stated in a post, responding to it makes no difference- the context of a conversation is not carried through by Lemming.
| Irritus wrote: |
| Not off-hand, as I haven't trolled idiot-filled forums in years. A Lemming stampede is uncoordinated and has nothing to do with loyalty or revenge. Basically it's a bunch of people just rattling off insults at the same person, spamming a thread with off-topic posts, and occassionally attacking one another for no apparent reason. It is not that the attacks are good, it's that since none of the Lemmings are really following anything it's difficult to hit one of them hard enough for the damage to sink in. |
No, but you did take residency in a forum that has a fresh supply of morons constantly being carried in by the tide, as you mentioned earlier-
| Irritus wrote: |
| I was originally going to name this Flotsam (which has a nice pirate feel). Mention it floats mindlessly with the current of conversation but is little more than an unthinking object... but I couldn't make it work. Plus I'd have to come up with a warrior named Jetsam. |
Hence the whole Jetsam scandal. Indeed, perhaps some time should be spent waiting for Jetsam to show up...
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| Posted:
Tue May 24, 2005 5:19 pm
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Well, I do really dig the name Flotsam. The problem is in the definition of Jetsam. While flotsam is a term for the floating debris leftover from a shipwreck, Jetsam specifically refers to (usually valuable) goods thrown overboard intentionally. It's kind of hard to think of a real warrior based on that. Simultaneously, I am loathe to simply invent something that might exist in theory.
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| Posted:
Tue May 24, 2005 6:12 pm
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Rambler
Joined: 05 Apr 2005
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| irritus wrote: |
| Well, I do really dig the name Flotsam. The problem is in the definition of Jetsam. While flotsam is a term for the floating debris leftover from a shipwreck, Jetsam specifically refers to (usually valuable) goods thrown overboard intentionally. It's kind of hard to think of a real warrior based on that. Simultaneously, I am loathe to simply invent something that might exist in theory. |
I dunno... Some of the tangling that Wizkey did earlier could be Flotsam in some respects. For example, his admission of using the insult generator was definately taking a weapon and dumping it overboard. Perhaps we could build on that theme...
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